Photo by Sherdog.com
Undefeated Lyoto Machida (top) was a
point of discussion during divisional
ranking discussion.
If anything, his ranking within the light heavyweight division should have dropped!
-- Brent Nahmias
Mike Fridley, managing editor: Just to clarify, the Sherdog rankings are tabulated amongst staff in an open-discussion format. Votes and opinions from around the globe are debated aggressively and tallied meticulously. Feelings are hurt and co-worker respect is shed in the process, but we feel that the final product reflects the effort applied.
Views on Rashad Evans and Machida’s placement were largely split with staffers, but total agreement was reached when the decision was made to rank the Karate-kicking light heavyweight above Chuck Liddell, Mauricio Rua and Wanderlei Silva.
In the end, Machida’s wins over Ortiz and Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou were considered quality, ranking-impact victories. Throw in an unblemished record and the Bobby Hurley hairdo, and you’re looking at a fighter who’s no less than fourth best in the division.
While I agree that Machida has showed the in-cage excitement level of a televised “Reading Rainbow” marathon, attention must be paid to the fact that after 13 career bouts against some decent competition, not one opponent has been able to seriously test the Brazilian.
Thankfully, with all 10 ranked 205-pound fighters under contract with the UFC, arguments within the weight class are just a signature on the dotted line away from being resolved.
Your light heavyweight rankings don’t make any sense: Wanderlei Silva (32-8-1, 1 NC) and Chuck Liddell (21-6).
OK, I’m going with Silva record vs. record. Also, Wanderlei has a much higher percentage of KOs and submissions, meaning “The Axe Murderer” is more of a finisher and decisive winner in his fights.
Liddell beat Silva on points, but was defeated by fighters who the Brazilian has owned in dominant KO performances.
-- Ben Neeson
Jordan Breen; columnist, radio host: First, there is no need to discuss the whole of Chuck Liddell and Wanderlei Silva's résumés. For ranking purposes, we're looking for contemporary merit as fighters, and our panel typically looks at a period roughly between three and four years. Also, I'm sure if Chuck Liddell got to fight the Tatsuya Iwasakis of the world, he may have some extra knockouts.
The most important thing to realize is that any divisional ranking is relative, and not all ranking spots are created equal. Chuck Liddell being ranked fifth and Wanderlei Silva seventh does not denote that “The Iceman” is “two better” than Silva. In fact, I would say that right now, their respective credentials within the light heavyweight division are very similar.
Fighters are not rewarded rankings-wise by proxy of what their former opponents do. Athletes’ wins and losses are assessed on their own merits. Therefore, Quinton Jackson downing Liddell twice while being smashed by Silva two times is no more relevant than the fact that Tito Ortiz handled Wanderlei years ago and couldn't hold a candle to Liddell.
What is important are their wins and losses in the division. In the last four or so years, I would say that Silva and Liddell have very similar losses at 205 pounds, typically to other solid light heavyweights.
What sets them apart is the wins. Wanderlei has bested Jackson, Ricardo Arona, Kazuhiro Nakamura and Keith Jardine, while Liddell has knocked out Couture twice, Renato "Babalu" Sobral, Ortiz, and has soundly defeated Silva. While a head-to-head win is not in every case the ultimate decider, in this case, I feel it makes Liddell's recently relevant action just slightly stronger than Silva's. However, it isn't as though these two are worlds apart rankings-wise, and one major win for either could reshape things considerably.
The Lesnar Paradox?
In terms of percentages, what line would you set for a Randy Couture-Brock Lesnar showdown?
This matchup seems insurmountably difficult for Couture. I was discussing the fight with a buddy of mine and he mentioned how Couture will have an advantage on the feet. Though I agree with him, I think there is a big danger in trading with Lesnar. With a fist so large, he doesn't necessarily have to be very accurate.
In theory, he should be able to land punches that other guys would miss due to the massive size of his hands. Also, I think that working the outside would be more in line with Lesnar's probable plan to shoot and get Couture on his back. Should Randy stick to a clinch type strategy? Is Brock able to be tripped?
I know that is a lot of questions, but in short, how can Randy Couture win this fight?
-- Matt from Wisconsin
Breen: As a rule, I don't give out percentages. I struggle to think of how a fight would play out in variance 100 times in my head. However, while Lesnar may pose tough stylistic issues for Couture, they're certainly not insurmountable.
First of all, yes, Lesnar is able to be tripped. He's not a Weeble.
Unless you think the Minnesotan sleeps standing up, you probably acknowledge he is a human being, and is therefore capable of falling down. More importantly, it's against other good wrestlers that Couture has been best able to use the body clinch to score takedowns.
The Natural’s head movement and set-up punches will be good enough to get a hold of Lesnar, who isn't about to wow anyone with his footwork and circling ability while standing.
The major question inside is how Couture will set up takedowns, as Lesnar's enormous upper body is rather unwieldy. However, Greco-Roman wrestling fundamentals offer you more than just an outside trip with double underhooks.
Couture isn't about to overlook something as simple as Lesnar's massive size, and will be appropriately prepared to sweep from inner and outer leg positions, use an overhook, and other varied staples of the style.
As for the challenger’s wrestling, while he's incredibly effective, he is one-dimensional and always has been. Even as an NCAA champion, Lesnar relied entirely on his ability to land power double-leg takedowns. That doesn't render him ineffective entirely, but again, it’s a bit easier to plan for. There is no more exhausting action in MMA than blowing double legs and being pancaked on, and that fact alone can give Couture an opportunity to take top position if he can force his opponent into lazy shots later in the fight.
Couture will certainly have to work for everything he gets in the wrestling department with Lesnar, but we need to keep things in perspective.
Lesnar is not Alexander Karelin. How would people be talking about the wrestling issue if Couture was facing another physically massive former NCAA champion, say, Sylvester Terkay? Somehow I don't think anyone would be asking if Terkay was capable of defying physics.
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